Fate - what is this insanity?

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Dunno. Never played any of those.

! Most of them are free, you should give em a gander some time. I would say they are all "important" games as far as the influence they had on system design in RPGs overall during the explosion of online content in the early aughts.
 
I'm not sure how you mean "arbitrary skills", but the way I would describe Risus would be "Fate with only Aspects" (I'm referencing here Fate 2nd, which I do know quite well, but is significantly less involved that Fate 3rd's system). But yeah, Risus has ratings while all Aspects in Fate have the same rating, effectively.

By "arbitrary skills" I mean "skills that are made up by the player".

Shticks in Risus seem primarily to be about "what can your character do?" This is less true in Fate, where "what I can do" is mostly handled by skills, and stunts. Aspects can sometimes give you permission to do things, but they're not about how good you do them.

Aspects, in Fate, are more about "what is my story about". That's kind of a wibbly wobbly definition, but it's the closest I can come.

I mean, if you look at aspects, they're definitely not skills (while Risus shticks mostly are). A skill gives you a constant ability in a task. Aspects don't. Aspects are usually used in some way to effect some kind of dramatic turnaround in how things are going - either coincidentally meeting someone you know (a Declaration), pulling victory from the jaws of defeat, etc. Sometimes they give permission to do things, because they kind of define a character's place.

For example, taking what I understand would commonly be an Aspect in Fate and a Cliche in Risus, the Incredible Hulk having "Strongest One there Is", Spidey having "Spider-powers", and The Six Million Dollar Man having "Bionic Limbs", each would only recieve a +2 bonus in Fate (or re-roll), whereas in Risus these character elements would be assigned dice to indicate potency/importance. I guess the main difference being that in Risus, a Cliche's implications covers skills while in Fate a player always has a standardized Skill list to fall back on? But that being the case, couldn't Fate just ditch the skill system and run solely on Aspects?

Because aspects aren't skills. It's kind of a hard thing to explain without the experience of playing it. But one of the issues with aspects is that they don't map super-well to things in other games (the closest mapping is the negative part of aspects to disadvantages/flaws in other games). People usually try to map them as skills or advantages, and they don't really work well as either, as written.

In a lot of ways, this is the core issue with learning Fate. There's enough things that look kinda like things in other systems that it's tempting to assume they're just like that... for you, aspects look like Risus shticks. For me, they looked like GURPS advantages/disadvantages. Not trying to say "oh, that's just like xyz" was the key for me figuring it out. To be fair, the books don't do a great job of explaining what things really do, instead mostly presenting how they work.

Fair enough, it was just I guess that I'm personally trying to identify what makes Fate unique as opposed to just in general what people like about it.

I'm not sure there's that much. Aspects are kind of unique, but definitely have similarities in other systems. I mean, what makes BRP unique, or GURPS? I think it's definitely a system that plays different than it reads, especially once you've sunk the time in to really "grok" it.
 
! Most of them are free, you should give em a gander some time. I would say they are all "important" games as far as the influence they had on system design in RPGs overall during the explosion of online content in the early aughts.
I went through drought from the mid '90s post grad school, that lasted until the early-mid '00s. I missed a lot.

VTT technology caught up and helped with that, and I settled down and found some new gaming friends as well as somehow convincing a few of the old guard to move out my way.

So little time, so much gaming to be done!
 
I'm not sure there's that much. Aspects are kind of unique, but definitely have similarities in other systems. I mean, what makes BRP unique, or GURPS? I think it's definitely a system that plays different than it reads, especially once you've sunk the time in to really "grok" it.

The SRD that ladybird linked to (thanks, btw) does aspects a severe fucking injustice, IMO.
Defining Aspects
An aspect is a phrase that describes something unique or noteworthy about whatever it’s attached to. They’re the primary way you spend and gain fate points, and they influence the story by providing an opportunity for a character to get a bonus, complicating a character’s life, or adding to another character’s roll or passive opposition.

Granted, it's a summary and a vanilla SRD, but that's like the Madam Tussauds wax version.
 
I'm of the mind that with Fate you have to try it before you buy it. If you have a good guy willing to give a demo, and some open-minded players, that'd be an afternoon well spent.

Looking at you here, rob :smile:
 
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As a fan of Fate, how much experience did you have with earlier rpgs like Maelstrom Storytelling, Everway, Over the Edge, Toon, Prince Valiant, Ars Magica, Ghostbusters, Castle Falkenstein, Amber Diceless, James Bond 007, Feng Shui, Nobilis or the Mind's Eye Theatre live action World of Darkness games? I only ask because I've found a lot of the formative ideas that make up Fate to be in there, along with the Fudge system of course.

The approach to scene framing, with 'Aspects' of various things contributing to rolling for a scene outcome, for example was found in Maelstrom Storytelling (1997). Its not quite the same as in Fate, but the overall point I am making is that Fate didn't just occur in a vacuum of ideas - although it may seem that way if you've only played a handful of games (like D&D, GURPS and Champions, say) previously.

I'm not knocking it's good qualities as a game system, however.
 
Its not quite the same as in Fate, but the overall point I am making is that Fate didn't just occur in a vacuum of ideas - although it may seem that way if you've only played a handful of games (like D&D, GURPS and Champions, say) previously.

I'm not knocking it's good qualities as a game system, however.

Does anyone here think that *was* the case?
 
As a fan of Fate, how much experience did you have with earlier rpgs like Maelstrom Storytelling, Everway, Over the Edge, Toon, Prince Valiant, Ars Magica, Ghostbusters, Castle Falkenstein, Amber Diceless, James Bond 007, Feng Shui, Nobilis or the Mind's Eye Theatre live action World of Darkness games? I only ask because I've found a lot of the formative ideas that make up Fate to be in there, along with the Fudge system of course.

I refer to Amber quite frequently when talking about how Create Advantage works. It basically codifies the ADRPG idea of "the superior opponent will win if all things are equal, so make them not equal".

I've read through Falkenstein, but never played it.

I'm pretty damn familiar with MET. Hell, I lived with Jesse Heinig for a while.

Familiar with Toon, but never played much. Can't remember if I played Ghostbusters or not.

Its not quite the same as in Fate, but the overall point I am making is that Fate didn't just occur in a vacuum of ideas - although it may seem that way if you've only played a handful of games (like D&D, GURPS and Champions, say) previously.

I'm not knocking it's good qualities as a game system, however.

I don't think anyone is claiming that Fate is something that didn't build on predecessors, and borrow a lot of tech.
 
I don't think anyone is claiming that Fate is something that didn't build on predecessors, and borrow a lot of tech.
That's cool then.

I've read some comments in the past that kinda implied that sort of thing, but to be fair, it was a really long time ago. I do have Fate, and have played it. I think it works best in two things, for me. Firstly, it is very well supported with lots of supplemental settings that are original and compelling, and very tidily presented and packaged. You can't knock that in any game, ever.

Second, I actually like it for the supers genre. This is significant for me, because I tend to find most other supers games either too technical or curiously too simple. Fate is ostensibly a simple game, but actually has enough structural depth to make it feel substantial to me somehow. Some official games, notably Marvel Heroic Roleplaying have a lot of similarities in design (with aspect-like descriptors and the like), but you can do original settings with a generic system. And Fate is still in print.

Not sure about doing things like horror or other genres with it though. The system is too forgiving, for my horror tastes. I think it does discuss this in one of the books.
 
Horror's not really a good fit for Fate, out of the box. People have done it, but it does take some work on the system, as "proactive and competent" are two of the assumptions, and those don't really match up the expectations of "horror".

You could probably do something like Delta Green, though, without too much work.

Like any system, there are things Fate does well, and things it struggles at (without sufficient modification).
 
I think that is right. Different tools for different jobs.

As much as anything else, the reason I think it works for supers is that a few phrases or sentences, on the whole, is a much better way to describe something than half a page of statistics. In the case of the horror genre, that could also be a useful thing but the best horror is where players feel that their characters have no control. Fate doesn't really deal with that sort of thing.
 
Yeah, if you look at how supers work in the comics, it's definitely more like "oh, they can control ice", and then how the writers think to cleverly use that power, than it is something where you've defined every application of ice powers up front.

Horror is, arguably, about powerlessness. Which makes a game with Fate Points and Declarations and Invocations kind of counter-indicated.
 
'm pretty damn familiar with MET. Hell, I lived with Jesse Heinig for a while.
If you are still in contact with him do say hi! One of my top three favourite RPGs ever is probably Mage: The Ascension. Jess took a lot of stick over his tenure as Mage Developer, due to the edition war problems of Mage Revised back in the day, but he put out some great material along with writers like Malcom Sheppard. That Laws of Ascension is also the most concise and accessible introduction of the Mage setting that you'll ever get.

Actually, if they ever chose to adapt Mage to Fate, along with some other 'powerful being' type settings - In Nomine also springs to mind - then I think it could really work.
 
I find Fate is great for the more pulpy and cinematic genres, or if the GM wants to portray a genre with a more narrative emphasis.

For gritty or simulationist flavoured games I would prefer to go with an 'old faithful' system (which sums up something like BRP for me). For example, if I was running a Hyborian Age game then I would go with something like BRP Mythras over Fate, or running an Investigative/Horror game then BRP Call of Cthulhu wins hands down. Dungeon Crawl style classic fantasy wouldn't be Fate's strong point either, something like that still sits well with D&D.

However if I ever want to play Pulp Era 'Thrilling Tales' Adventure, Swashbuckling Musketeers/Pirates, Contemporary Action Flick, or Super Heroes, then Fate Core is now my go-to game. It would also certainly do stuff like Fable-style fantasy (ie Grimm Fairie Tales, Princess Bride, Robin Hood, Mythic Age Heroes, Americana Folk Tales, etc)

In addition to this, some genres that have a heavy non-combat focus would also work quite well for Fate (given that you can have a dramatic focus portrayed by 'mental/social combat'), as well as for games in which how you perform an action is more important than your specific ability in that action.

If you replace Skills with Approaches (like Fate Accelerated,) then it works like a charm for those kind of games. I could see something like Dr Who, The Goonies, or Wizarding World portrayed really well with the Fate Accelerated rules. I hate to be the one who says it, but Fate Accelerated could even play Pride & Prejudice or Poldark quite well, if you were forced in such a predicament by a spouse lol
 
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That's cool.

I try to avoid that by avoiding system-speak. So in my games, you don't say "I invoke my Love For Rhonda aspect". You say "while the thugs get in my way, my love for Rhonda fuels me to push past them" or whatever.

If you're just saying "I invoke Love For Rhonda" I totally see how that'd be very mechanical, abstract, and like button-mashing.
I don't think that'd necessarily help everyone to avoid the immersion-breaking for several reasons:

- You would still know you were calling on that Aspect, even if you disguise that with your language.
- You are not the only person who calls on your Aspects, and nor are you going to exclusively going to call on your Aspects. To do a compel on someone or use a situational aspect or whatever you need to know what that Aspect actually is, and you need to be able to clearly and unambiguously specify that you are doing that so the GM/rest of the table follows what you are doing and is aware that you're trying to spend points on stuff.
 
Second, I actually like it for the supers genre. This is significant for me, because I tend to find most other supers games either too technical or curiously too simple. Fate is ostensibly a simple game, but actually has enough structural depth to make it feel substantial to me somehow. Some official games, notably Marvel Heroic Roleplaying have a lot of similarities in design (with aspect-like descriptors and the like), but you can do original settings with a generic system. And Fate is still in print.
This, actually. Some of the very crunchy superhero games out there lose me because they seem to think that comic book authors actually think about, say, the Newtonian force behind Hulk's punches in a quantised, absolute way. Whereas FATE seems to be really good at presenting a game where things work according to the actual logic of superhero stuff - people are really good at stuff with plays to their characteristic strengths, get in trouble when their characteristic weaknesses come into play, and have very distinctive personalities that make them stand out from the crowd.
 
For gritty

I think Fate does gritty really well, actually. The trick is using sufficient difficulty, which is a common issue - most GMs set difficulties far, far too low in Fate.

Consequences allow lasting harm to come out of Conflicts. Since I generally define gritty as "pain", that works for me.

(BRP can do gritty as well, of course, as can other systems).

or simulationist flavoured games I would prefer to go with an 'old faithful' system (which sums up something like BRP for me).

Absolutely.

Fate isn't "simulationist". It explicitly sets out to model how things work in movies. You can have gritty movies, or high action movies, or pulpy movies, or realistic movies, but they're still all movies and handle things a certain way.

Dungeon Crawl style classic fantasy wouldn't be Fate's strong point either, something like that still sits well with D&D.

I agree 100%.

If you replace Skills with Approaches (like Fate Accelerated,) then it works like a charm for those kind of games.

I use approaches mostly when I want very quick character creation, or in cases where most characters would end up with the same skills anyway. For the type of game you're describing, yes, Approaches would work great, but so would a customized skill list.

I don't think that'd necessarily help everyone to avoid the immersion-breaking for several reasons:

- You would still know you were calling on that Aspect, even if you disguise that with your language.

Agreed 100%. I'm not saying that this helps *everyone*, I'm saying that, man, I'd sure hate to play in a game where the mechanics were laid so bare, and I don't know any groups that do play that way.

- You are not the only person who calls on your Aspects, and nor are you going to exclusively going to call on your Aspects. To do a compel on someone or use a situational aspect or whatever you need to know what that Aspect actually is, and you need to be able to clearly and unambiguously specify that you are doing that so the GM/rest of the table follows what you are doing and is aware that you're trying to spend points on stuff.

That's not nearly as much of an issue, in my experience.

You *should* know aspects. They really are "things that people know about the situation". That's kind of their primary job.

As far as unambiguously letting people know what's happening, that's usually physically tossing a Fate Point into the heap while saying "it looks like the orc is about to hit me, but as a Seasoned Orc Hunter, I know this move well and narrowly dodge out of the way."

I don't see anything too egregious in there, certainly no more than picking how much Power Attack bonus you want in D&D 3.x.

The "immersion-breaking" aspect, to me, is two-fold.

1) Fate Points exist, and are player-facing
2) Some percentage of the time, narration of the usage of Fate Points can involve describing actions beyond what the player does.

That said, for me, a lot of the immersion-breakingness of the game was just the fact that a lot of the procedures are very different from many traditional games, and once I had internalized them a little better I found that my immersion didn't really break any more, certainly no more than a lot of crunchy games. I will acknowledge BRP for being a generally very immersion-friendly game. Also, YMMV and all that.

This, actually. Some of the very crunchy superhero games out there lose me because they seem to think that comic book authors actually think about, say, the Newtonian force behind Hulk's punches in a quantised, absolute way. Whereas FATE seems to be really good at presenting a game where things work according to the actual logic of superhero stuff - people are really good at stuff with plays to their characteristic strengths, get in trouble when their characteristic weaknesses come into play, and have very distinctive personalities that make them stand out from the crowd.

Yes, exactly. That is exactly what Fate does - it makes games that run the way authors think about presenting and writing things.

Create Advantage maps pretty much perfectly to a technique known as "Plants and Payoffs" (http://creativewriting.wikia.com/wiki/Plants_and_Payoffs), and in general, if you think about "what would the camera show in a movie" you'll figure out a way to handle most actions that works nicely with Fate rules.

That's not necessarily what you always want, of course, and I certainly don't recommend Fate for all situations.
 
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Does anybody make use of the cards rather than the dice? How does that play out? In fact, has anybody tried it without any randomiser?
 
I think Fate does gritty really well, actually. The trick is using sufficient difficulty, which is a common issue - most GMs set difficulties far, far too low in Fate. Consequences allow lasting harm to come out of Conflicts. Since I generally define gritty as "pain", that works for me
Well yes I should have clarified that better, as I totally agree with you there. Fate can do 'gritty' very well, but it would be very challenging to the players (not necessarily a bad thing). I agree that the standard challenge rating needs to be higher than Fair (+2) if trying to portray very realistic circumstances, and the Consequences need to reflect such as well.

If I wanted to portray a Fate Game of Thrones for instance, the social Consequences would be very intense, such as 'Demeaned', 'Shunned' or 'Ostracised', for example. The physical Consequences from combat in such a gritty setting would have to be quite gruesome, and playing a character with 'oozing open wound', 'smashed eye-socket' or 'ruptured spleen' would be quite demanding. Poor Theron took a really bad Consequence lol.

So yeah Fate can certainly do 'gritty'; although for my troupe the Fate system shines much more with the pulpy genres, with vague Consequences like 'Rattled', 'Stunned', 'Battered & Bruised'; with stuff like 'Hurt' or 'Badly Wounded' being in the more severe range of Consequences. Just a personal preference thing with my current group I suppose, as they prefer a lighthearted game these days.

I can see a cyberpunk setting like Interface Zero working well with the dials tweaked to portray a grim setting inspired by the works of Phillip K.Dick or William Gibson, rather than a pulpy anime style cyberspace ( I don't have Interface Zero yet, but I've just ordered it by post; it looks like a serious setting for Fate).

I agree that Fate doesn't shine in every genre or setting, but I have found it is great for telling stories in settings where the player-characters are presented as highly capable personalities. I put it on a par with HeroQuest for this, although Fate wins out in the fact that it may be a little easier to transition to, and the fact that there seems to be a wider range of supplements and resources for Fate.

I also agree that it is important to bury the mechanics within the dialogue and narrative, as you have suggested. Using the rules terms too much at the game table (ie: invoking, tagging, create advantage, boost, etc) does make things feel more structured than it needs to be, and game system intrusion happens easily with Fate for some reason. Which is quite unusual, as once I had become familiar with the rules being a set of guidelines, then they seemed to fade into the background and just play a supporting role in the storytelling process.

The same goes with most rpgs, but with more traditional or 'simulationist' games the game mechanic terms are part of the whole experience, and sometimes dictate actions to a degree. Whereas rpgs with a heavy 'narrative' emphasis it is perhaps more important for GMs to know the rules really well from the start, so they can be used for advice rather than too much reference.

However my players didn't really even need to know the rules to start playing, they just had their High Concept and Trouble aspects, with 3 or 4 skills and they were good to go. Everything else became fleshed out over the course of a few sessions, and they picked the rules up quite quickly just as long as I wasn't using too much game-speak with them.
 
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Does anybody make use of the cards rather than the dice? How does that play out? In fact, has anybody tried it without any randomiser?
I think I prefer the idea of rolling those fudge dice to shuffling cards and randomly drawing from the pack. However I may like it as a novelty for some settings like Wild West for instance. But I'm not a big one for cards replacing dice in a rpg.
 
I think one of the things with the deck (though I haven't used it) is that you give the players the cards, and they can choose which one they use until they run out of cards. At least that's how I interpret it?
 
Well I probably should not have commented on the card deck, considering I am not inclined to purchase it. I just assumed it would be shuffled results rather than choosing cards. Interesting. I'll keep my mouth shut on this one, and let someone who has used the cards discuss them.
 
Well I probably should not have commented on the card deck, considering I am not inclined to purchase it. I just assumed it would be shuffled results rather than choosing cards. Interesting. I'll keep my mouth shut on this one, and let someone who has used the cards discuss them.
I have them but haven't used them. I believe you're correct about shuffling and drawing randomly, as per the product description. I can't see how that's better than rolling dice, but de gustibus non est disputandum, as I always say ...
 
I think one of the things with the deck (though I haven't used it) is that you give the players the cards, and they can choose which one they use until they run out of cards. At least that's how I interpret it?
Yep, as someone who has played Castle Falkenstein before, the idea of choosing a card to play from a hand - and having to use all cards up before you redraw - actually means you have even more narrative control over events. The other approach I like - used by Everyway - is to create a small 'tarot spread' of cards that you turn over for each action. It's all quite Fate-full. Of course there is nothing stopping you reading straight from a deck, or just mixing it up with dice rolls too.
 
Fate isn't "simulationist". It explicitly sets out to model how things work in movies. You can have gritty movies, or high action movies, or pulpy movies, or realistic movies, but they're still all movies and handle things a certain way.
This jumped out at me and is a fine example of why using GNS terminology isn't a good idea when discussing RPGs. If you go to the wikipedia page about GNS, it describes simulationism as "Simulationism is a playing style recreating, or inspired by, a genre or source. Its major concerns are internal consistency, analysis of cause and effect and informed speculation."

And by this definition, FATE is very much a Simulationist game.

GNS. Muddying the waters since 1999.

On another tangent, I really like the idea of Aspects. And there's a bunch of stuff I like about FATE. But is there an edition that doesn't use those godawful Fudge Dice?
 
On another tangent, I really like the idea of Aspects. And there's a bunch of stuff I like about FATE. But is there an edition that doesn't use those godawful Fudge Dice?

THEY'RE THE BEST PART!!!!!
:grin:

I don't know but you can substitute d6-d6. It's a wider spread, with some differences in the bell curve, but it's close enough for some folks.
There's also the deck of cards, as mentioned above, and also apps (of course).
 
Yep, as someone who has played Castle Falkenstein before, the idea of choosing a card to play from a hand - and having to use all cards up before you redraw - actually means you have even more narrative control over events. The other approach I like - used by Everyway - is to create a small 'tarot spread' of cards that you turn over for each action. It's all quite Fate-full. Of course there is nothing stopping you reading straight from a deck, or just mixing it up with dice rolls too.

This is similar to what Storium does. (www.storium.com)

Anyone wanna try a game of that?

And by this definition, FATE is very much a Simulationist game.

GNS. Muddying the waters since 1999.

Yup! That's why I put "simulationist" in quotes, to denote the common meaning and not the GNS term.
 
Yup! That's why I put "simulationist" in quotes, to denote the common meaning and not the GNS term.
The problem being, there are isn't a common meaning, just a whole lot of people with their own sense of what the word meeans.
 
On another tangent, I really like the idea of Aspects. And there's a bunch of stuff I like about FATE. But is there an edition that doesn't use those godawful Fudge Dice?
Yes there's a couple of editions. One uses a D20 and it's called 'HeroQuest", the other uses D6s and it's called 'RISUS' ! :grin:
lol
 
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Yes there's a couple of editions. One uses a D20 and it's called 'HeroQuest", the other uses D6s and it's called 'RISUS' ! :grin:
lol
Seriously, though. Specialist dice put me off games these days. I sometimes think that RPG designers should go old school and work from the idea that new players aren't going to have funky polyhedrals. Instead they're going to raid the family board games collection for D6.
 
I went through drought from the mid '90s post grad school, that lasted until the early-mid '00s. I missed a lot.

VTT technology caught up and helped with that, and I settled down and found some new gaming friends as well as somehow convincing a few of the old guard to move out my way.

So little time, so much gaming to be done!

Definitely check out Risus, it is free to download, is inspired by the Ghostbusters ruleset and is a short and quick read.
 
Seriously, though. Specialist dice put me off games these days. I sometimes think that RPG designers should go old school and work from the idea that new players aren't going to have funky polyhedrals. Instead they're going to raid the family board games collection for D6.

Most 'indie' games I've read take that very much into consideration and so are built around d6.
 
Seriously, though. Specialist dice put me off games these days. I sometimes think that RPG designers should go old school and work from the idea that new players aren't going to have funky polyhedrals. Instead they're going to raid the family board games collection for D6.
Fate dice aren't that weird as dice go, and it's easy to adapt a set of pip dice to fate dice.

Also, these days the majority of players are going to have some device capable of running a dice roller; I prefer physical dice, but that option is there.
 
Hmm. I've tried to understand FATE for ages, and read many of these helpful threads without getting any wiser.

Let me try to approach it from a different angle this time. Someone please explain to me how every part of FATE except the Aspects work. If this is not possible because Aspects are too integral, then try to explain to me how the system works when no FATE points get spent to invoke them. Tell me what it means to create an advantage. Tell me under what circumstances you roll to overcome. Explain the common use of Stunts.

Part of my problem has always been that FATE is fluffy where I expect it to be crunchy and crunchy where I expect it to be fluffy. I have spent a lot of time trying to learn from explanations that put the fluffy stuff (Aspects) front and center. Perhaps I'll have better luck if someone starts with the crunchy?

The problem being, there are isn't a common meaning, just a whole lot of people with their own sense of what the word meeans.

I dunno, I remain dubious. Every time I hear someone use the word, they seem to mean it in roughly the same way - because people assume that words mean what they sound like they mean, so whatever a word started out as meaning, it will eventually drift to mean what a casual listener will lazily assume that it means. It's a bit of a shame that the Wikipedia article defines it as meaning something different than what most people use it to mean, I'll grant you, but still - I want it taken to the record that the word was used here, unprompted, to mean what I argued that it should be used to mean the last time this discussion came up.
 
Tell me what it means to create an advantage. Tell me under what circumstances you roll to overcome.
"Create Advantage" and "Overcome" are basically the "do stuff" rules from any other RPG, broke out into the two fundamental goals a character might have; get an advantage for yourself, or overcome some obstacle in your way.

So let's consider a generic RPG with stealth rules along the lines of "The hiding character rolls their Hide skill. The character trying to find them rolls their Seek skill against a difficulty rating against the hiding character's roll".
Alice and Bob are rival spies, and Alice wants to hide a microfilm dossier from Bob; she has a Hide skill of 4, adds a d6 to it, gets a total of 7. Bob goes looking for her; he's got a Seek skill of 3, so he's going to need to roll a 4 or better to find the dossier.

Now let's do the same thing in Fate. Alice still has Hide 4, Bob has Seek 3. When Alice hides the dossier, she is creating an advantage for herself if she succeeds; the dossier is hidden, so she can go through border search. GM says fine, and sets the difficulty to 3; she's somewhere quite bright without that many obvious hiding places, so it's quite difficult to hide something here. Alice rolls 4dF+4 and gets a 4, exceeding the difficulty. She's hidden the microfilm.
Bob's turn. He says he wants to find the dossier. Okay, says the GM, but Alice has hidden it, so to find it Bob will need to overcome that obstacle. The GM sets the difficulty to 4, because that was Alice's skill. Bob rolls his 4dF+3 and gets a 4! Now Bob has the dossier.

Again, SRD link, if you want it.
 
Let me try to approach it from a different angle this time. Someone please explain to me how every part of FATE except the Aspects work.
Without Aspects, Fate is pretty simple. Traditional. Boring, even!
Start with Skills. Very traditional. Roll the dice, add your Skill, compare to a target number or opposed roll to see if you succeed.
Add stunts. You can do lots of different things with these, depending on the setting and the specific implementation of Fate you're using, but at heart, these fulfill the functions of things like feats and race / class abilities in D&D. Basically situational bonuses, minor special abilities and such. Want your elf to get a bonus sneaking through the woods? Ta da, a stunt!
Extras. Basically a catch all term for various sorts of powers and other special abilities that are more serious than stunts. These will very much be specific to the Fate game. Could be super powers, magic spells, psionics, or even just really exceptional talents that go above and beyond skills and stunts.
Stress tracks, kinda like hit points.
You could pretty much play a game with the above, though it would be rather bland.
Aspects round this out, and would be needed for character aspects and consequences (more serious damage from attacks and such, like a broken leg). See my post above for that. :smile: And again, remember, that Aspects don't necessarily require spending a Fate point to have a mechanical or narrative effect in the game (as per my post).
Actions, pretty straightforward:
Attack and defend: just like what they sound.
Overcome: just the generic "do a thing" action - pick a lock, sneak past the security camera, etc.
Create advantage: basically just a unified mechanic to cover lots of things that don't fit the above, to make things easier on you. There are various games with special combat maneuvers, for example, that could work as create advantage in Fate. Spending a round aiming a weapon before firing, so you make a better shot. I've seen traditional games do this by saying something like: "spend a round aiming your weapon and make an Awareness + Marksman roll; on a success, get a +2 bonus to your Dexterity + Marksman roll next round when you fire the weapon." That's just what Fate would call "create advantage" - make a skill roll, with a success, you create an aspect, hopefully with some free invokes to improve your action the next round.
I'll stop there for now and see if that makes sense, but do ask more questions! :grin:
 
Fair warning!!! At some other RPG forums where I get into these conversations, this would just about be the time when people would start posting in the thread while clearly not having read it, and it gets VERY frustrating. The first person to ask "But why do Aspects have no mechanical effect unless you spend a Fate point?" will get slapped with a wet dead fish before I storm out of the thread ... ;)
 
Sorry, I still don't get it :sad:

If a PC creates and advantage (eg. enemy NPC goon is now "Stunned"), that PC gets a free mechanical benefit from the "Stunned" aspect that they just created, correct?

While the "Stunned" aspect lasts (perhaps until the enemy NPC goon does an overcome to get rid of that aspect), other PCs would have to spend a Fate point to benefit from it, though, right?
 
Sorry, I still don't get it :sad:

If a PC creates and advantage (eg. enemy NPC goon is now "Stunned"), that PC gets a free mechanical benefit from the "Stunned" aspect that they just created, correct?

While the "Stunned" aspect lasts (perhaps until the enemy NPC goon does an overcome to get rid of that aspect), other PCs would have to spend a Fate point to benefit from it, though, right?

So, if someone's Stunned, they're stunned.

That means that they can't do things that you normally couldn't do if you're stunned (however you define that).

That also means that you might be able to do things against them that you normally couldn't, because they're stunned.

It means that some things might be difficult for them, and so there will be Passive Opposition (a DC, basically) against that action. However, if someone is *actively* opposing them, these don't add, but instead you choose the highest.

Lastly, you could have a "dramatic swing" type of moment by choosing you use your free invocation, or spending a Fate Point. This is the only effect here that requires a Fate Point. The others just exist.

I think the confusion is that most games handle *all* of these by giving out a bonus/penalty. Most of the impacts (things you can/can't do, things being more difficult) are handled without the use of bonuses in Fate, but the bonus that you can get is based on using a free invocation or spending a Fate Point.
 
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