horror rpg homebrew; looking for a system to use

[Jan Paparazzi]

Hi, I got some system ADD.

I am looking for a system for my homebrew modern day urban horror setting. My setting will consist of the following: investigators, some sort of spirit world, black magicians and cultists.

I need rules for supporting the following things:
1. a simple skill and attribute system for the pc's (preferably ruleslight, maybe rulesmedium)
2. rules for lowpowered psychic powers for the pc's (danger sense, precognition, mediumship)
3. rules for building ghost/spirits
4. rules for some sort of corrupting magic/magic with a price for npc's
5. powers for cultists, preferably different from magic, for npc's

I don't know what system I should use. Maybe BRP? I am not familiar with Cthulhu though and the setting I have in mind is a modern horror setting more like Silent Hill or something like that. Any ideas? I really want to make a choice and get it running next month or so.

 

[Ladybird]

If you're confident with BRP, sure!

If your PC's are going to be doing a lot of investigating things, something on the Gumshoe engine might do the job. Fear Itself is maybe the specific book for you, although Mutant City Blues might be good too; the system is very ruleslight.

 

[TristramEvans]

Just based on the list, my first recommendation would be Unisystem with the Magic Box supplement, but no idea if those are readily available.

 

[Mankcam]

BRP (either the BGB or CoC 7E) or World/Chronicles Of Darkness would be my choices for this, based on past experiences.

However if I wanted to try a complete blank canvas then I would strongly consider Fear Itself (backing up Ladybird's suggestion). It uses the GUMSHOE mechanics and it is tailored for the setting described. Anything by those authors is usually pretty good.

 

[Ragr]

At the risk of repetition, Fear Itself was pretty much made for this.

Your first three requirements are specifically met with light rules that feature an emphasis on investigation but also simple rules for chases and confrontations. There are rules for shock, called stability within Fear Itself. Creating supernatural foes is very simple and there are light rules for PC psychic powers

There isn't a lot in terms of a corrupting magic system, although there is an NPC ability called Aberrance that can be used with some free form powers of the GM's choosing. Another option might be to pick up the inexpensive Rough Magicks supplement which, although designed for Trail Cthulhu, should be portable with the names scratched off.

 

[Simlasa]

I'd just use CoC (probably 5e) and I'm pretty sure I've got spirits and psychic rules for it somewhere.

 

[Sosthenes]

Horror is a somewhat "generic" genre, and often its easier to add some of the tropes you want (magic/corruption/powers) onto another system than switch completely. On the other hand, it's also a very personal genre and thus easily used as the core for more exotic systems, most of them on the narrative end of things.
So I'd go either experimental or pick a system the players and I know well, adding stuff myself if necessary.

Having said that, you can't really go wrong with game systems that are all about horror anyway: (New)World of Darkness has most of what you want in the core plus some supplements for specifics, there are multiple Unisystem games that come to mind (Witchcraft ist free, Angel is a create catch-all book and Conspiracy X seems to hit a lot of the tropes, too). And Call of Cthulhu, of course.
If your setting is high-powered agents and cultists vs monsters, then GURPS Monster Hunters might be an option (I wouldn't recommend GURPS unless you either know it well or there's some pre-fab, templated setting). I'm not going to recommend the HERO equivalent.

Others already recommended most relevant GUMSHOE games, and if you want something slightly different to change things up, that would be my preferred option. There's more horror in the "PbtA" sector than FATE, and I've been having a look at Urban Shadows recently. But that strikes me more as a WoD crossover politics replacement, not terribly investigative.

Atomic Robo is more on the Hellboy end of things, but it's easy to paint over that veneer. And then you've got stress/fear built-in, a very good teamwork setup and an easy way to create special effects -- although given the system, magic and psi wouldn't be that different, FATE paints with very broad strokes.

I'm currently reading Demon Hunters, which looks like a similar game, mashing up FATE with Cortex, so if you're into polyhedrals...

 

[Jan Paparazzi]

Well, I am going to cross the WoD of the list, because I don't like the complicated way the books are written and their habit of spreading rules across a high number of books.

So pretty much I can use BRP, Unisystem or Gumshoe. I already noticed Fear Itself and the Esoterrorists before. I also posted on rpggeek and I got the same recommendations, as well as Silent Legions (Sine Nomine), Chill and Unknown Armies.

 

[TristramEvans]

Unkown Armies has the best sanity system ever devised for a game, but the magic is very idiosynchratic & tied to the nature of the setting. If its what you're looking for, perfect, but otherwise the SAN system is very easy to port to another game of your choosing (Nemesis for example, available free online, uses the UA Madness meter combined with the ORE "One Roll engine" system for Mythos investigation)

 

[Baulderstone]

Just based on the list, my first recommendation would be Unisystem with the Magic Box supplement, but no idea if those are readily available.

Unisystem also gives you Conspiracy X, which gives you psychic powers and corrupting magic. There is even an in-universe connection between magic and psychic powers.

 

[Jan Paparazzi]

Unisystem also gives you Conspiracy X, which gives you psychic powers and corrupting magic. There is even an in-universe connection between magic and psychic powers.

Good to know. So I come a long way by combining Witchcraft with Con. X. I didn't know that.

The setting is pretty much Cthulhu without the Mythos. It has in common with Cthulhu that the players are good and pretty much everything supernatural (cults, magicians, artefacts, grimoires) is evil. It's the players job to investigate and solve everything out of the ordinary. The only thing I don't use is the pantheon of deities Cthulhu has. I want to replace that with some sort of dark animistic spirit world similar to the spirit world in Werewolf/world of darkness.

 

[Spinachcat]

I suggest Silent Legion by Sine Nomine as a useful GM tool regardless of system.

 

[Baulderstone]

Unkown Armies has the best sanity system ever devised for a game, but the magic is very idiosynchratic & tied to the nature of the setting. If its what you're looking for, perfect, but otherwise the SAN system is very easy to port to another game of your choosing (Nemesis for example, available free online, uses the UA Madness meter combined with the ORE "One Roll engine" system for Mythos investigation)

On that note, Unknown Armies author Greg Stolze did the the new Delta Green RPG. It uses a BRP variant of the same sanity system skewed a little more towards the Lovecraftian. The free PDF version of the rules includes the sanity system. It is definitely worth the time it takes to read.

 

[The Butcher]

Unisystem also gives you Conspiracy X, which gives you psychic powers and corrupting magic. There is even an in-universe connection between magic and psychic powers.

I am intrigued.

I wish I’d gotten into Unisystem back when Eden Studios was alive and kicking.

 

[TristramEvans]

I am intrigued.

I wish I’d gotten into Unisystem back when Eden Studios was alive and kicking.

I was lucky enough to pick up the entire Buffy line and Army of Darkness for about $5 a book in a bargain bin a while back. Its a good system, and I imagine probably would still be going strong if it wasnt for licensing costs, but it is also got hit by the D20 craze that swallowed the industry for a few years,

 

[Spinachcat]

I wish I’d gotten into Unisystem back when Eden Studios was alive and kicking.

The old books still work!

I wasn't impressed with All Flesh Must Be Eaten (felt too generic to me), but Buffy was the best Star Trek system I've played. I got more interested in AFMBE later when the various optional campaign concepts were presented.

Its a great Theater of the Mind system for players who like lite systems and want to focus on the interpersonal roleplay. I'm not even a Buffy fan and I wound up playing more hours of the Buffy RPG than the number of episodes I've probably seen.

But I don't know if Uni does horror. All the Uni games I played felt like campy TV shows.

 

[Ladybird]

I am intrigued.

I wish I’d gotten into Unisystem back when Eden Studios was alive and kicking.

Eden are still, technically, alive, they're just... well, this would be the perfect time for a Monty Python skit.

Supposedly Beyond Human, their all-in-one generic urban fantasy / horror toolkit system, is in editing and will be out in a year or two. But it's been in editing and due out in a year or two for years, so believe it if you see it. Pity; the system looks nice and simple and adaptable. I've got the entire run of WItchcraft 2e books around somewhere, and a copy of ConX2, if I can find which box it's in.

 

[The Butcher]

Eden are still, technically, alive, they're just... well, this would be the perfect time for a Monty Python skit.

Supposedly Beyond Human, their all-in-one generic urban fantasy / horror toolkit system, is in editing and will be out in a year or two. But it's been in editing and due out in a year or two for years, so believe it if you see it. Pity; the system looks nice and simple and adaptable. I've got the entire run of WItchcraft 2e books around somewhere, and a copy of ConX2, if I can find which box it's in.

Yeah, that’s the one I want.

Wasn’t it originally being marketed as a supers game, though?

I’m sort of hoping Armageddon will be the first setting book ;) (that was probably the 1990s-est game ever. Loved it.)

 

[Ladybird]

Yeah, that’s the one I want.

Wasn’t it originally being marketed as a supers game, though?

I’m sort of hoping Armageddon will be the first setting book ;) (that was probably the 1990s-est game ever. Loved it.)

I think it originally started from the skeleton of the City of Heroes RPG Eden were doing? But if you have a Supers system, you're most of the way to a generic toolkit system anyway...

I used to have a copy of Armageddon, and it looked like a good time! Then I found out that I know a guy who is very angry about it's mere existence, so any hope of running it went out the window.

 

[Simlasa]

Then I found out that I know a guy who is very angry about it's mere existence, so any hope of running it went out the window.

Why was he so angry about it?

I liked a lot of things about Armageddon but never got a chance to play it... or any other Unisystem game, which is a shame because I think there's a lot about the system to like. The magic system in Witchcraft is particularly appealing to me.

 

[soltakss]

Hi, I got some system ADD.

I am looking for a system for my homebrew modern day urban horror setting. My setting will consist of the following: investigators, some sort of spirit world, black magicians and cultists.

I need rules for supporting the following things:
I don't know what system I should use. Maybe BRP? I am not familiar with Cthulhu though and the setting I have in mind is a modern horror setting more like Silent Hill or something like that. Any ideas? I really want to make a choice and get it running next month or so.

HeroQuest is perfect for this kind of thing.

1. a simple skill and attribute system for the pc's (preferably ruleslight, maybe rulesmedium)

HeroQuest is built on skills, I would have each archetype as a keyword with breakouts below that, so Witch 10M (Black Magic + 3, Hates Angels), Werewolf 15M (Rip Prey Apart +3, Conflicted, Hates Vampires) and so on.

2. rules for lowpowered psychic powers for the pc's (danger sense, precognition, mediumship)

In heroQuest, you just have these as standalone skills/leywords or as breakouts for keywords, so you might have Witch 10M (Black Magic + 3, Hates Angels, Danger Sense) or Danger Sense 5M (Sense Enemy +3, Sense Undead, Sense Werewolf +2).

3. rules for building ghost/spirits

HeroQuest has freeform rules for these, so you could have Ghost 12M2 (Walk Through Walls, Haunt, Bound to Haverstock Hall), basically you work out what the ghost should be able to do and assign abilities/breakouts accordingly.

4. rules for some sort of corrupting magic/magic with a price for npc's

This is one thing that HeroQuest doesn't have, but you could start a Corruption keyword at certain triggers and have it increase in value, perhaps with breakouts where applicable.

5. powers for cultists, preferably different from magic, for npc's

As with the above, these are terated as keywords with breakouts or skills, so you could have Cultist 10M (Black magic, Summon Demon) or Cultist 10M (Physic Pain, Mind Control) or whatever you want.

 

[Ladybird]

Why was he so angry about it?

I liked a lot of things about Armageddon but never got a chance to play it... or any other Unisystem game, which is a shame because I think there's a lot about the system to like. The magic system in Witchcraft is particularly appealing to me.

As it was explained to me: Armageddon was originally going to be the title / concept for a ConX1 supplement, when all the End of the World scenarios went off. But then it got attached to Unisystem (Which my friend dislikes) and turned into a sequel to Witchcraft (Which my friend also dislikes), and he blames C J Carella (Who... you get the idea).

 

[Baulderstone]

As it was explained to me: Armageddon was originally going to be the title / concept for a ConX1 supplement, when all the End of the World scenarios went off. But then it got attached to Unisystem (Which my friend dislikes) and turned into a sequel to Witchcraft (Which my friend also dislikes), and he blames C J Carella (Who... you get the idea).

Actually, that Conspiracy X sequel game was going to be called Extinction.

Your friend's explanation just doesn't fit the timeline at all. Conspiracy X came out in 1996 from Eden Studios. Armageddon came out from Myrmidon Press in 1997. Armageddon, but it didn't scuttle Extinction, which Eden didn't even begin work on until 2000.

However, George Vasilakos at Eden got nervous the whole alien fad of the '90s was at an end. On top of that. All Flesh Must Be Eaten was a big hit for that company at that time, so they shelved Extinction.

Back in 2012, Eden had a Kickstarter the Conspiracies book for 2nd edition of Conspiracy X's Conspiracies supplement. They passed a stretch goal to let backers be alpha playtesters for a planned release of Extinction that would be funded by a later Kickstarter. To my knowledge, that hasn't happened yet.

 

[Ladybird]

Your friend's explanation just doesn't fit the timeline at all. Conspiracy X came out in 1996 from Eden Studios. Armageddon came out from Myrmidon Press in 1997. Armageddon, but it didn't scuttle Extinction, which Eden didn't even begin work on until 2000.

It's very possible he put two and two together and went off on one, yeah.

Anyway. It's just not worth the hassle to mention it around him.

 

[Baulderstone]

It's very possible he put two and two together and went off on one, yeah.

Anyway. It's just not worth the hassle to mention it around him.

Yeah. I was telling you, but I agree it probably isn't worth telling your friend if he is just looking for reasons to hate Carella.

 

[The Butcher]

Yeah. I was telling you, but I agree it probably isn't worth telling your friend if he is just looking for reasons to hate Carella.

Here, I have a better one:

 

[Ladybird]

I've got a copy of Nightbane somewhere. It looks entertaining; not sure I'd use the system as written, but lots of good stealable tables.

 

[Jan Paparazzi]

Let's try to narrow this down. I have four optional systems I like:

1. Unisystem. I don't know if it does horror well. I seems a bit high powered. The combat may also be a bit crunchy with all those multipliers.
2. Fear Itself. I don't know how well this game handles magicians and cultists.
3. Cthulhu. Seems like it would be a fit, but I don't know how well it handles some sort of spirit world or dark reflection of our own world. Same could be said about the other systems.
4. Silent Legions. I think pretty much the same could be said for this system as for BRP.

 

[Mankcam]

Out of that list, I would narrow it down to 'Call of Cthulhu' or 'Fear Itself'.

 

[Jan Paparazzi]

And why is that? Wait a min, isn't Trail of Cthulhu Gumshoe as well? If I combine Trail of Cthulhu with Fear Itself and Esoterrorists ... that could work.

 

[Jan Paparazzi]

I checked out Fear Itself and it seems right up my alley considering the pc's, psychic powers and the horror mood, but I don't think I can create all the npc's (monsters, spirits, cultists, magicians/witches) I want to use with this system. It seems to be more about the investigation aspect of the game and not much else.

Maybe I can better use on of the others. Checking on unisystem next. Paranormal sourcebook.

 

[Baulderstone]

I checked out Fear Itself and it seems right up my alley considering the pc's, psychic powers and the horror mood, but I don't think I can create all the npc's (monsters, spirits, cultists, magicians/witches) I want to use with this system. It seems to be more about the investigation aspect of the game and not much else.

Maybe I can better use on of the others. Checking on unisystem next. Paranormal sourcebook.

If you do decide to tinker around with GUMSHOE, you might want to pick up some of the Ken Writes About Stuff articles. They mostly focus on GUMSHOE and provide lots of ideas and tweaks. You can buy the articles individually or get them in annual subscription packages. Honestly, I find Hite to be a good source of horror/occult ideas regardless of the system I am using.

 

[Simlasa]

Honestly, I find Hite to be a good source of horror/occult ideas regardless of the system I am using.

Yeah, I've got no interest in running anything Gumshoe but the various books associated with its lines are gold mines for ideas. The ToC stuff is great inspiration for Call of Cthulhu games.

 

[Jan Paparazzi]

True. I love how he writes his books. I consider Sine Nomine books gold mines too. I love all the options it provides. It seems those OSR sandbox books (same goes for DWD Studios) are really good at breaking things down and deconstructing everything. Making it a real toolkit, way more than the nWoD books which don't deconstruct it that much and seem more about filling in the blanks Dark Souls style.

It seems like the Paranormal source book does give me psychic powers for the players and ritual magic for the npc's. I think I can do everything I want if I combine it with the Witchcraft books.

 

[Baulderstone]

True. I love how he writes his books. I consider Sine Nomine books gold mines too. I love all the options it provides. It seems those OSR sandbox books (same goes for DWD Studios)...

Not to derail the thread, but what would you consider a good sandbox book from DWD? I am a sucker for those regardless of system.

 

[Jan Paparazzi]

Barebones Fantasy and Covert Ops are both really good. Lots of tables in them as well. Covert Ops has tables for generating missions, villains, enemies and organisations for example. The system doesn't use skills though, but skillgroups based on profession. That limits the skills to about ten. Percentile system.

Another update. I won't use Gumshoe. It seems rather railroady and it doesn't seem to have powers for the npc's and I will need those for the cultists and the witches. It seems to be only about the players skills and some psychic powers. I do like the tone and mood of the books and that makes sense, because the mood is what attracted me to the World of Darkness in the first place.

The other three are all good. They all have magic rules and rules for psychic powers. I found out Cthulhu has psychic powers in Delta Green countdown. The magic is coming with a cost in Cthulhu and Silent Legion. That's default in those settings, but in Cthulhu it is definitely linked to the Mythos. A lot of those costs besides sanity is being left to the keeper though and seem to move the story forward. I decided to not go for Silent Legions because of the class system though. I never liked class systems. So that narrows it down to two. BRP and Unisystem.

 

[Jan Paparazzi]

If I want to use ritual magic with BRP do I need this magic book? Or BRP core or Cthulhu?
Oh shite, there is another one! https://www.chaosium.com/enlightened-magic/

 

[Ronin]

I think if it were me. I would go with Unisystem. I do not have any experience with Witchcraft. But I do own a ton of All Flesh Must Be Eaten. It sounds like it has everything you want. But the "monsters" might be a little limited for you. As it focus on undead. But if witchcraft has a bestiary you would be in like Flynn.

 

[Mankcam]

If I want to use ritual magic with BRP do I need this magic book? Or BRP core or Cthulhu?
Oh shite, there is another one! https://www.chaosium.com/enlightened-magic/

I would not do the first book you linked, The Magic Book, as it is really just the old RQ3 magic systems slightly altered to run seamlessly with the BRP BGB. It really was just a cheap knock-off reprinting dated material which was not initially collected for the BGB. It's even getting somewhat revamped for Glorantha in the upcoming new edition of RuneQuest.
I would steer clear of The Magic Book if I were you. No flavour for the setting you are describing.

However the second book you linked is an entirely different story. I think you are definitely on a winner with this one.
Enlightened Magic is probably one of the most realistic-flavoured occult magic systems you are ever likely to find.

Enlightened Magic is for BRP, but ports seamlessly into CoC if you want to include non-Mythos magic. Don't expect anything resembling arcane-flavoured Superpowers or Vancian/Gygaxian magic; this book is rooted in serious occult study and is an excellent portrayal of such for rpg gaming. The best thing is that there is no SAN loss like with Mythos magic, however it is highly ritualistic with other consequences, and is great if you are after a realistic game.
Highly recommended.

 

[Mankcam]

So personally I would go with BRP:

Either
CoC 7E + Enlightened Magic + ? The Grand Grimoire
or
BGB + Enlightened Magic


CoC 7E is well supported and definately has cultists and such that you are after. I think the slight game mechanic changes from previous BRP is quite good, although that is subjective of course. I don't think there is any non-Mythos powers however, so Psychics tend to go insane as they cast Mythos magic or peer into the Mythos.

BGB isn't really supported as a high priority for Chaosium these days, but the book itself is self-contained. It doesn't have any flavour, due to it being a flat generic toolkit for you to tinker with, but it does have the innate Psychic powers that you were suggesting in the original post.

Both games are robust BRP sets with 90% cross-capability between them. I don't think you can go wrong with a set of good mechanics like BRP.