The Shannara Chronicles

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Baeraad

Delicate Snowflake
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I just noticed that season two has started, and I note with satisfaction that it's every bit as stupid and every bit as fun as the first one. :grin:

To be specific, I'm halfway through episode two, so the following observations should be seen in the light of that. Bear with me.

I think I even like Bandon as a villain, which I had my doubts about. His motivations actually kind of make sense - he hasn't turned Evil per se, he just aggressively doesn't give a shit about anyone but himself anymore and wants to put himself on top for once, and to hell with what happens to the rest of the world. And the Mord Wraiths are surprisingly creepy.

Allanon is still an asshole. And still a badass. He's a badasshole. So's Jax, actually.

I'm conflicted about Eretria's new girlfriend. On the one hand, I'm still shipping Wil/Eretria. On the other hand, she and Lyria have a lot of chemistry and some interesting wrinkles to their relationship, and it's kind of nice to see Eretria not get swept up in someone else's grand destiny for once but to explore the more mundane aspects of the setting.

Mareth is the only one who hasn't made much of an impression on me so far (so much so that I had to look up her name). She makes for a nice foil for Wil, as a half-elf magic-user who is rushing to embrace her powers - her criticism of Wil for trying to abandon his birthright but still benefiting from it when it suits him is valid, but given how things tend to work on this show, I'm guessing her own approach is going to end up every bit as problematic; magic always comes at a price, and all that - but other than that, I can't get much of a handle on her character so far.

In conclusion, I hope there's more Cogline.
 
When I heard about the series coming out I got The Sword of Shannara (which I'd never read) and eughhh arrrghhh oh god make it stop got as far as the end of book one. Good thing I was reading on the Kindle or I would have thrown it out the window.

I watched maybe three minutes of the first episode of the first season. Is it worth looking into again? What about the books? I'm told Elfstones of Shannara is better.
 
I watched maybe three minutes of the first episode of the first season. Is it worth looking into again?

Sure. I mean, it's not amazing or anything, but it's fun and fast-paced and colourful. You should on no account take it seriously, but the sheer cheesy teen-drama-meets-epic-fantasy charm of it is really entertaining.

What about the books? I'm told Elfstones of Shannara is better.

Well, relatively speaking, yes... but I wouldn't recommend anything earlier than Scions of Shannara. That's when the series began to develop some actual personality rather than being standard hyper-generic fantasy. And even then, I'd be hesitant to tell you to read it. It's okay, and it's got a certain something, but... well, see if you like the show first, and if so you can maybe try the books.
 
Butcher, Baeraad, I started with Scions; it was good, although the next three books are even better.
 
I have a hardback collection of the first three books and was never really inspired to read any more of them. I keep meaning to watch the show, but for some reason I never caught up with it.
 
You all inspired me to watch a little while my wife's at the hospital. Perfectly serviceable tv fantasy. Nothing too bad but not game of thrones. I'll watch more as time allows.
 
I am an unapologetic Shannara junkie. I am dreading the TV show, but if it ever comes to Netflix, I will probably watch it.

Terry Brooks writes gooey cheese sandwiches, but I'd argue its not American cheese on Wonder Bread while I'll admit its not brie on artisan baguettes either. But to me, its cheddar on sourdough.

Yes, its RPGpub where all analogies must be food related. We do have some rules around here!
 
I am an unapologetic Shannara junkie. I am dreading the TV show, but if it ever comes to Netflix, I will probably watch it.

Terry Brooks writes gooey cheese sandwiches, but I'd argue its not American cheese on Wonder Bread while I'll admit its not brie on artisan baguettes either. But to me, its cheddar on sourdough.

Yes, its RPGpub where all analogies must be food related. We do have some rules around here!
Nothing wrong with cheddar or sourdough. I feel much the same way about James Barclay.
 
I got to the Shannara books too late. I received a boxed set of the original trilogy when I was about 14. By then, I had already consumed The Lord of the Rings, The King of Elfland's Daughter, The Chronicles of Prydain, and the Elric series. If someone had given me that boxed set when I was ten, I probably would have loved it and continued to have affection for the books as I got older. Instead, I read about a third of the first book and stalled out on it.

In fact, I might have liked it more if I read it later. I just happened to be at that pretentious mid-teen point where I automatically rejected anything that might be somehow juvenile. In fact, maybe I should pick these up for my ten-year-old nephew for Christmas and read them at the same time he does.
 
I am an unapologetic Shannara junkie. I am dreading the TV show, but if it ever comes to Netflix, I will probably watch it.
Would it make you jelly if you knew the author lived at the end of my street?

Oh and it's on Netflix. That's how I found it. Maybe Prime but pretty sure Netflix.
 
<Snip> By then, I had already consumed The Lord of the Rings, The King of Elfland's Daughter, The Chronicles of Prydain, and the Elric series. <snip>
This is a concept I struggle with. How do you consume media? Surely in the act of consumption, the thing being consumed is destroyed. This doesn't really apply to media. And the commercial definition, to purchase goods or services, can apply. But again, doesn't really fit with the narrative we get sold that media, once consumed, needs to be somehow replaced with new and better media.

On'y I've got books I've had for 35 years and still enjoy every now and then. Treasure Island, I'm looking at you. Along with The Weirdstone of Brisingamen and The Dark Is Rising series. And others. They haven't been consumed, they're still there.

Anyway, enough of my random digressions. I guess it's sort of related to food, or at least the act of eating food...
 
This is a concept I struggle with. How do you consume media? Surely in the act of consumption, the thing being consumed is destroyed. This doesn't really apply to media. And the commercial definition, to purchase goods or services, can apply. But again, doesn't really fit with the narrative we get sold that media, once consumed, needs to be somehow replaced with new and better media.
I meant more the definition "eat, drink, or ingest" as opposed to "use up". I had taken it in and it was a part of me now.
 
I meant more the definition "eat, drink, or ingest" as opposed to "use up". I had taken it in and it was a part of me now.
I get that's the meaning. But to eat, drink or ingest means that the thing you ate, ingested or drank is no longer there for others to consume. It's just me being weird, at the end of the day.
 
I read the first book as a teen and thought 'they're just going to be collecting magical junk?' The Macguffin plot was too obvious and the super-generic setting and characters was less inventive than even Dragonlance (which I think was actually a good setting).

I think its rabid mediocrity (along with the first book in the Fionavar Tapestry) turned me off of fantasy writing for a long time, until I discovered the likes of Brackett, Leiber and Clark Ashton Smith.

But I could see the junky plot and characters working better as a TV show so I do want to check it out once it becomes available on one of my streaming services.
 
Sure. I mean, it's not amazing or anything, but it's fun and fast-paced and colourful. You should on no account take it seriously, but the sheer cheesy teen-drama-meets-epic-fantasy charm of it is really entertaining.

Exactly. It is fantasy enought to scratch my itch, is full of pretty people and has enough action and plot to be interesting and watchable.

I have it on series link. Would I bother to tune in and watch it if I didn't have series link? Probably not. Would I watch it if it came on TV? Almost certainly.
 
Would it make you jelly if you knew the author lived at the end of my street?

Very cool, but I'm too LA jaded to get jelly.

Terry's stuff has been in development hell for 20+ years. I knew people inside Terry's agency and all the politics around Elfstones being picked up for a movie over a decade ago. I even lobbied for his later Shannara series to be told via anime or at least, via animation. I loved the magic powered skyships. Total no go unfortunately.
 
Very cool, but I'm too LA jaded to get jelly.

Terry's stuff has been in development hell for 20+ years. I knew people inside Terry's agency and all the politics around Elfstones being picked up for a movie over a decade ago. I even lobbied for his later Shannara series to be told via anime or at least, via animation. I loved the magic powered skyships. Total no go unfortunately.
Michael Moorcock's stuff has been in development hell for as long or longer. Unfortunately, for a while it was the trend to go round buying up the rights to fantasy properties. Not to make the next Lord of the Rings. But instead to prevent your rivals from doing that.

And then there was the disaster that was Legend of the Seeker. Where Terry Goodkind made the classic mistake of selling the rights to his books, rather than doing as JK Rowling did and selling the rights to his story.
 
And then there was the disaster that was Legend of the Seeker. Where Terry Goodkind made the classic mistake of selling the rights to his books, rather than doing as JK Rowling did and selling the rights to his story.

Aw, LotS was a good show. But I know what you mean. It removed all the, ahem, controversial stuff from the book, which meant that the fans who liked the books didn't like it and gradually left, and the people who might have liked the more conventional fare of the series was turned off by the books' reputation and were never drawn in in the first place.
 
Aw, LotS was a good show. But I know what you mean. It removed all the, ahem, controversial stuff from the book, which meant that the fans who liked the books didn't like it and gradually left, and the people who might have liked the more conventional fare of the series was turned off by the books' reputation and were never drawn in in the first place.
IT wasn't that they removed the controversial bits. It's that they took the names of characters and the characteristics of characters. Then mixed and matched at will, while totally ignoring the core story of the books.

It was like asking for tomato soup and a grilled cheese sammich, only to get a potato cheese soup with a side salad. Similar ingredients ,but all prepared in ways you didn't ask for.
 
Been watching it lately and it's been very enjoyable compared to most fantasy stuff out there. Thanks for bringing this up.
 
I read the first book as a teen and thought 'they're just going to be collecting magical junk?' The Macguffin plot was too obvious and the super-generic setting and characters was less inventive than even Dragonlance (which I think was actually a good setting).

I think its rabid mediocrity (along with the first book in the Fionavar Tapestry) turned me off of fantasy writing for a long time, until I discovered the likes of Brackett, Leiber and Clark Ashton Smith.

But I could see the junky plot and characters working better as a TV show so I do want to check it out once it becomes available on one of my streaming services.

The first book was bad; author got better.
 
Michael Moorcock's stuff has been in development hell for as long or longer. Unfortunately, for a while it was the trend to go round buying up the rights to fantasy properties. Not to make the next Lord of the Rings. But instead to prevent your rivals from doing that.

Very true. Over the years, I've had conversations with people who've been in the conversations about Stormbringer being turned into a movie and its always been a clusterfuck. Why? Because Elric is a satanic villain who murders all who love him...and he's the hero. Not an easy sell to the mainstream, especially pre-Dexter and pre-Breaking Bad. There was hope after LotR and GoT, but we must wait and see. Moorcock expressed some positivity in 2014, but no specifics.[
 
Very true. Over the years, I've had conversations with people who've been in the conversations about Stormbringer being turned into a movie and its always been a clusterfuck. Why? Because Elric is a satanic villain who murders all who love him...and he's the hero. Not an easy sell to the mainstream, especially pre-Dexter and pre-Breaking Bad. There was hope after LotR and GoT, but we must wait and see. Moorcock expressed some positivity in 2014, but no specifics.[
The anti-hero isn't a new thing. Maybe in fantasy movies it would be, but the core idea isn't new by a long shot.

But I agree that part of the issue with Elric is that it's very dark material that works on a level that fantasy in movies or on TV hasn't really tapped yet. And then there's the fact that the world he lives in is almost abstract in nature. And that's before you get into the addiction and abuse metaphors that litter the stories. And of course the way Elric is very much a deconstruction of Conan.

A good adaptation could be incredible. But a mediocre one, which is far more likely, would be a disaster.
 
I think perhaps Kubrick could have potentially produced a good interpretation of Elric, although the special effects of his era would have let him down.

I can envision a contemporary version of Elric done well in a good quality HBO series, a very mature dark fantasy. It needs to have a dissociated euro-tone, much like the Elric portrayal in Titan Comics (which Moorcock says improves upon his original depiction) mixed in some weird psychedelia art-nouveau flavour, with occasional pure metal hurlant elements.

I agree that Elric could be done quite well these days, but it also runs the risk of being a lame misstep if it falls short.
 
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Very true. Over the years, I've had conversations with people who've been in the conversations about Stormbringer being turned into a movie and its always been a clusterfuck. Why? Because Elric is a satanic villain who murders all who love him...and he's the hero. Not an easy sell to the mainstream, especially pre-Dexter and pre-Breaking Bad. There was hope after LotR and GoT, but we must wait and see. Moorcock expressed some positivity in 2014, but no specifics.[

That's why I have always been glad there has been no progress on an Elric movie. It is almost impossible to imagine it making it though the Hollywood system as anything other than terrible.

I can picture a pretty cool translation of Elric into a '70s Shaw Brothers wuxia film having been made back in the day. It wouldn't be the GGI wankfest that people usually want their favorite fantasy novel turned into, but I think they actually could have gotten the spirit of the thing. Sympathetic heroes and happy endings are entirely optional in that strain of fantasy action movie.

I think perhaps Kubrick could have potentially produced a good interpretation of Elric, although the special effects of his era would have let him down.

I can envision a contemporary version of Elric done well in a good quality HBO series, a very mature dark fantasy. It needs to have a dissociated euro-tone, much like the Elric portrayal in Titan Comics (which Moorcock says improves upon his original depiction) mixed in some weird psychedelia art-nouveau flavour, with occasional pure metal hurlant elements.

I agree that Elric could be done quite well these days, but it also runs the risk of being a lame misstep if it falls short.

TV really is the best hope for Elric today. Aside from the fact that TV actually takes creative risks. A lot of the Elric Series is just stitched together short stories. It is well-suited to an episodic medium. I agree with your opinion on the art style needed for it too. Even if they got the story right, An Elric series that looked like Jackson's LotR or GoT would be a big disappointment.
 
TV really is the best hope for Elric today. Aside from the fact that TV actually takes creative risks. A lot of the Elric Series is just stitched together short stories. It is well-suited to an episodic medium. I agree with your opinion on the art style needed for it too. Even if they got the story right, An Elric series that looked like Jackson's LotR or GoT would be a big disappointment.
Elric would need the same sense of scale as LotR or GoT. But bringing those Roger Dean visuals to life would be a challenge for the design team on the show. But all that could be overcome. For me, there's one huge issue with Elric. And that's Stormbringer.

Giving a sword personality in a way that doesn't come over as silly would be a massive undertaking. Not to mention the way the lore around the Black Swords changed over the decades.
 
I think perhaps Luc Besson could be a reasonable choice for the aesthetics, but it definitely needs a grim and narcissistic tone rather than having any quirky humour elements thrown it. A high end production television series is definitely better plot-wise, rather than trying to wrap it up in a bloated-movie trilogy. I also don't think it lends itself to the big heroic moments of cinema, so a well made small screen adaption would be best. I'm sure it will happen, as it's one of those holy grails that hasn't been done yet.
I guess it will be a shame if it overshadows the novels, and if it is done wrong it will kill the novels for the next generation.




(PS: We perhaps should get this thread renamed 'Cinematic Adaptions', otherwise we'll have to wander back towards the original subject of The Shannara Chronicles...)
 
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I pull it off I think it would have to be a French production (only they would embrace the surrealism and perversity in a feature format) or a TV series.
 
Just for hell of it, here are my final impressions of the season. Spoilers will abound.

Good parts:

* Like I said in my first post, Bandon makes a much more convincing villain than I thought he would. It's actually kind of scary just how sense he makes as a character. He isn't morally ambiguous at all, he's clearly doing the absolutely wrong thing, but you can see exactly why his actions make sense to him. He makes a really nice counterpoint to Wil - they start out in almost exactly the same place, but Wil eventually manages to get his shit together, while Bandon just ends up losing it completely.

* Likewise, I love how unflinching they are in portraying Shea as a flawed person who is still deserving of sympathy. It would have been all too easy to declare that he'd been perfect all along, but no, the dude had some issues and he didn't deal with them well and his family (and the world at large) suffered for it. At the same time, he was genuinely a sweet-natured guy who wanted to do the right thing and just wasn't strong enough. That's a nice bit of nuance in a show that I don't normally expect that of.

* Ander's death, oh man. That was brutal. He didn't just die, he failed - when it came right down to it, he never stopped believing that he was unworthy, and Riga used that against him and managed to kill him because of it, and just like that everything he tried to accomplish was for nothing. You can just imagine his last thoughts being, "See, Allanon? Told you I'd fuck this up." :sad:

* Cogline is awesome. He's just about the only character who's somehow managed to get hold of cool powers without being screwed over by them. Shows the benefit of taking a creative approach.

* I ended up liking Lyria less than I thought, but Mareth more. Once we got into Mareth's head a little more it turned out that she had some stuff of her own going on. If we get another season (and I admit it doesn't look likely), it'll be cool to see her as the new Druid of Paranor. Lyria, though, it turns out we knew everything about by episode two and she never developed from there.

* Side character I want to see more of? The Elder Stor. I love just how stoically he endures all the crap that he gets put through. And he's awesomely ugly. Also, it's fun to see a Gnome who's the polar opposite of Slanter so as to provide more depth to their culture. Gnome representation, yo! ;)

* Just generally, the season offered up a lot of action and fun with every episode. Having two camps of bad guys let them switch things up a lot, and there was never any point where it felt like they were just spinning their wheels - every episode had at least some cool bits to show.

Gripes:

* The first season was a lot stronger in the parts where they were adding to or modifying the existing book than in the parts where they were making things up wholecloth - which is odd, since a lot of the things they changed ended nothing like the books at all, but still, you could pretty clearly see that they benefited from a starting point to deviate from. This season they were only making things up wholecloth, and it kind of shows. It's not bad and it's not uninteresting, but it's less good and less interesting than the Amberle/Wil/Eretria quest arc was.

* The characters in particular feel like a step down. The three main leads in season one balanced each other out so perfectly that they generated a fun dynamic just by being in the same room. The new characters are fine for the most parts, but they don't challenge or highlight each other in the same way.

* Personal arcs were also a bit lacking. Wil had one. So did Ander, even if it ended with him turning out to be a tragic hero incapable of overcoming his fatal flaw. Mareth got a bit of one, but it sure took a while to get there. Eretria's never really took off and ended up put on hold for a third season we may or may not get. Jax was mostly comic relief. And Lyria? Why was she even there, again?

* The Warlock Lord was certainly cool and terrifying, but he also felt a bit flat after Bandon and Riga.

* Seriously, enough of the established badasses getting taken out in one punch because it fits the plot! :p

In summary:

I liked the season, and I hope we get another one. I can kind of see why we might not, though.
 
I finished the first season and enjoyed it for the combo of teen romance and science fantasy gernerica. And unlike a lot of genre TV it clipped along at a good pace.
 
I finished the first season and enjoyed it for the combo of teen romance and science fantasy gernerica. And unlike a lot of genre TV it clipped along at a good pace.

Yes! That's something I really like with the show - it actually resolves plot threads at a steady pace instead of drawing them out endlessly. I think current genre TV is an overreaction to to the "everything gets wrapped up by the end of the episode" arrangement that was the norm twenty years ago. TSC manages a pretty nice middle ground whereby past events still matter, but they don't spend forever milking every situation.
 
Yes! That's something I really like with the show - it actually resolves plot threads at a steady pace instead of drawing them out endlessly. I think current genre TV is an overreaction to to the "everything gets wrapped up by the end of the episode" arrangement that was the norm twenty years ago. TSC manages a pretty nice middle ground whereby past events still matter, but they don't spend forever milking every situation.
And so many show now no longer do anything resembling a well structured episode. An episode is just a random slice of an eight hour movie. I find it really diminishes the rewatchability of a lot of shows. I'm more likely to go back and watch the Greatest Hits of a show when the mood takes me than to watch the whole thing over again. With shows where the episodes don't have a solid structure, it is hard to remember what happened in which episode, so it is all a blur.
 
I think one issue is that everyone seems convinced that their show needs to be a sf or superhero version of The Wire and they have no where close to the characterization skills of Simon amd company and so we end up with genre shows with weak plots and pretentious attempts at depth.
 
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