Star Frontiers

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noman said:
Just doing my part for this community. :tongue:

Also, Amazon Shipping > USPS > FedEx > UPS > OnTrak. :hehe:

Ontrak and UPS can't even figure out how to ring doorbells or open doors. :irritated:
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I was shipping manager for a mail order business in the early '90s. We shipped packages through USPS, FedEx, and UPS. Most of our packages went by USPS, but if a package was lost or late, there was a 99% it was one sent by either FedEx or UPS. The USPS was far more reliable than either.
 
Baulderstone said:
I was shipping manager for a mail order business in the early '90s. We shipped packages through USPS, FedEx, and UPS. Most of our packages went by USPS, but if a package was lost or late, there was a 99% it was one sent by either FedEx or UPS. The USPS was far more reliable than either.
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I've been very surprised by USPS' competence, at least in my zip code. In order to get to me, any delivery has to jump through a handful of low hurdles. Amazon and USPS get it done. FedEx is hit or miss. UPS and OnTrac seem to get befuddled by doors.
 
As mentioned before, I live in a condominium building. To get in, you need to buzz a unit via one of the building's intercoms at each entrance. Well, when Amazon started their own delivery service a couple of years ago, for some bloody reason they gave their drivers my condominium's intercom code as a general code to get into the building. Every single delivery Amazon makes to someone in my condominium building, they enter my condominium's code on the intercom to get in. I've tried calling Amazon's customer support number to get this changed twice, and yet two years later this still goes on. It's... most annoying.
 
Baulderstone said:
I was shipping manager for a mail order business in the early '90s. We shipped packages through USPS, FedEx, and UPS. Most of our packages went by USPS, but if a package was lost or late, there was a 99% it was one sent by either FedEx or UPS. The USPS was far more reliable than either.
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Good to know, in my old job I often had to ship to the US from Canada and back and had nightmare experiences with Fed Ex and UPS. I gave up on having a competent shipping company in the US.
 
Apparition said:
As mentioned before, I live in a condominium building. To get in, you need to buzz a unit via one of the building's intercoms at each entrance. Well, when Amazon started their own delivery service a couple of years ago, for some bloody reason they gave their drivers my condominium's intercom code as a general code to get into the building. Every single delivery Amazon makes to someone in my condominium building, they enter my condominium's code on the intercom to get in. I've tried calling Amazon's customer support number to get this changed twice, and yet two years later this still goes on. It's... most annoying.
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Morbid curiosity. How many units?
 
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All these years I never realized Traveller was unplayable! What a fool I've been!

Gotta admire the sheer gall of this ad. (Funny they don't mention their game has no spaceship rules.)
 
I’ve never owned or read Star Frontiers. How would it compare to Traveller, for instance?
 
Endless Flight said:
I’ve never owned or read Star Frontiers. How would it compare to Traveller, for instance?
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I've heard it compared this way: Rules wise, Star Frontiers = B/X D&D. Traveller = D&D 3.5E. I think that's a bit hyperbolic, because the same person that made that comparison also said that you need a degree in physics for starship combat in Traveller, but Star Frontiers is definitely less complex. Star Frontiers is also more heroic space opera, while Traveller is relatively more hard science-fiction.
 
Endless Flight said:
I’ve never owned or read Star Frontiers. How would it compare to Traveller, for instance?
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I don't really know that they're comparable in any meaningful way as all they really have in common is "sci fi RPG," one being inspired by pre-Star Wars novels and short stories and the other being largely informed by latterday whizbang sci fi movies and TV, at least that's my impression. They serve different purposes and have different assumptions. Traveller is setting-free and assumes nothing aside from no FTL communication and psionics are real (although easily excised if unwanted), a Traveller referee is expected to create his own setting, whereas Star Frontiers is tailored to a specific setting and seems be flashier in conception. Traveller originally had no space aliens; Star Frontiers allows PCs to be human or any of three very different alien sophonts. Both serve their purposes, but I think it would be easier to play Star Frontiers with Traveller rules if you wanted to do such a thing and difficult to do the reverse. It actually could be fun to take some Star Frontiers setting material as inspiration for a Traveller game. If I could only have one, I'd take Traveller because it's nearly completely generic and adaptable to emulate nearly any sci fi that I have enjoyed.

Note: when I say "Traveller," I mean what they now refer to as "Classic Traveller." I prefer the original 1977 edition but the 1981 version is nearly the same with a handful of minor (but important) changes.
 
Apparition said:
I've heard it compared this way: Rules wise, Star Frontiers = B/X D&D. Traveller = D&D 3.5E. I think that's a bit hyperbolic, because the same person that made that comparison also said that you need a degree in physics for starship combat in Traveller, but Star Frontiers is definitely less complex. Star Frontiers is also more heroic space opera, while Traveller is relatively more hard science-fiction.
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I would call B.S. on whoever made that fallacious claim.
 
I was Googling Star Frontiers ads and happened upon this Larry Elmore piece. I don't recall it being from Star Frontiers, but if so all I can say is someone was watching Starcrash at the time. (Voros will appreciate this.)
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Dumarest said:
I don't really know that they're comparable in any meaningful way as all they really have in common is "sci fi RPG," one being inspired by pre-Star Wars novels and short stories and the other being largely informed by latterday whizbang sci fi movies and TV, at least that's my impression.
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They are very different, but Star Frontiers isn't really based on movies and TV. The game was initially defined by the Volturnus series of adventures, and that is pure planetary romance. If anything, Star Frontiers has the older influences. Traveller is '60s -'70s hard sci-fi. Star Frontiers is '30s and '40s sci-fi pulp.

I think its influences were a major reason it never really caught fire with gaming fans. I liked the game, but Star Frontiers felt old-fashioned to a lot of my friends that were more into Star Wars than classic sci-fi. Zebulon's Guide was an attempt to modernize the game with some of the hardware having an Aliens feel, losing some of the classic pulp flavor.
 
Bunch said:
Oh god! Have you tried emailing jeff@amazon.com?

Gotta agree with Dumarest. I'd really have to see how they came to that conclusion because I don't see how you get there.
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I have not. I should try that, thanks.

I can see how someone could reach that conclusion if they were only speaking in regards to Traveller 5 as I think only a physicist could decipher that mess. :tongue: 'My God, it's full of tables!" Classic Traveller or Mongoose Traveller though? No.
 
Dumarest said:
I was Googling Star Frontiers ads and happened upon this Larry Elmore piece. I don't recall it being from Star Frontiers, but if so all I can say is someone was watching Starcrash at the time. (Voros will appreciate this.)
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Someone had the good taste to draw Stella Star for the Strange Stars rpg:

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Here are Stella and Connery from Zardoz. Where is our Zardoz rpg?

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Wait wait, wait...what is this Strange Stars RPG? Any game with Stella Star in it is worthy of being looked into.
 
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Dumarest said:
Wait wait, wait...what is this Strange Stars RPG? And Any game with Stella Star in it is worthy of being looked into.
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It's a systemless RPG setting book. They later put out separate books, one which provides rules for OSR and another for Fate, but it is a fun idea mine on its own.

We spent a lot of time talking about it in the Hydra Collective thread.
 
Voros said:
Where is our Zardoz rpg?
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ZARDOZ SPEAKS TO YOU, HIS CHOSEN ROLE-PLAYING ONE.

THERE CAN NEVER BE A ZARDOZ RPG. FOR RPGS BRING THE BRUTALS TOGETHER IN FUN AND LAUGHTER, DISTRACTING THEM FROM THE CLEANSING OF THE EARTH.

ALSO COPYRIGHTS

ZARDOZ HAS SPOKEN.
 
Apparition said:
I've heard it compared this way: Rules wise, Star Frontiers = B/X D&D. Traveller = D&D 3.5E. I think that's a bit hyperbolic, because the same person that made that comparison also said that you need a degree in physics for starship combat in Traveller, but Star Frontiers is definitely less complex.
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Yeah, I think that person was pretty far off base with those comparisons. Rules-wise, I don't think Star Frontiers and Classic Traveller are that far off from one another. Classic Traveller utilized vector-based movement in starship combat. But, I remember playing plenty of Knight Hawks battles using chits, and tracking acceleration-deeceleration factor, and movement arcs.

The only vaguely physics thing that comes to mind with Classic Traveller is the diagram for in-system travel - and the F=MA formula for determining rates based on starship engine type and distance traveled.
 
K_Peterson said:
Yeah, I think that person was pretty far off base with those comparisons. Rules-wise, I don't think Star Frontiers and Classic Traveller are that far off from one another. Classic Traveller utilized vector-based movement in starship combat. But, I remember playing plenty of Knight Hawks battles using chits, and tracking acceleration-deeceleration factor, and movement arcs.

The only vaguely physics thing that comes to mind with Classic Traveller is the diagram for in-system travel - and the F=MA formula for determining rates based on starship engine type and distance traveled.
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I remember I had a TPK in Star Frontiers because the PC pilot miscalculated the number of turns he needed to decelerate.
 
Classic Traveller's life paths are fairly simple but so are Star Frontier's skills. However, a beginning Star Frontiers character is essentially on par with a CT character at 18 with just defaults. Star Frontiers has detailed combat with lists of modifiers and circumstantial rules Traveller does too but is range band and simultaneous rather than initiative and map based. Traveller starships move on vectors and Star Frontiers ships turn a bit more like boats but neither has fuel limits and both can result in silly, unplayable velocities. Seriously people, why are fuel limits so difficult? In practice, Traveller starship combat is simpler but starship operations are more complex but not by much. I've always loved the detailed SEU to damage and details on power cells in Star Frontiers for some reason and I like the Star Frontiers weapon list better. It's easier to add new weapons to Star Frontiers too, thought Traveller is pretty good at using existing weapons to simulate new ones.
 
Baulderstone said:
And neither game is anything like 3.5.
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In his defense, I don't think he was insinuating that Traveller is like D&D 3.5. He was insinuating that going from Star Frontiers to Traveller is like going from B/X D&D to D&D 3.5, which I noted is a bit hyperbolic.
 
It depends a little, Classic Traveller could be books 1-3 straight up but it could also be Books 1 - 8, Supplements 1 -14, 6 Alien Modules, Snap Shot, May Day, Azanit High Lightning, and Striker all being used in different instances. It could also be Mega Traveller which is pretty complex and fiddly. T4 would be cleaner than either but has a few warts, seriously T4 needed some work but it's my favorite Traveller.
 
We're going to have to start calling it Original Traveller when we mean just the first three books from the boxed set! Dang, role-playing discussions are more legalistic than insurance policy contract language!
 
Maybe just CT LBB1-3 if you want to nail down the terminology. The rhyme just rolls off the tongue. :smile:
 
Hot off the presses: The man that's behind Starfrontiersman.com and the Star Frontiersman and Frontier Explorer fanzines (why one guy publishes two Star Frontiers fanzines I still don't quite get, but I digress), received a telephone call from Wizards of the Coast today. All of the remastered Star Frontiers materials on Starfrontiersman.com are being pulled, several issues of the Star Frontiersman fanzine are being pulled, and it's quite possible that WotC is about to put the kibosh on both fanzines. So... erm... get those books and fanzines while you still can, (if they're even still up).
 
Apparition said:
Hot off the presses: The man that's behind Starfrontiersman.com and the Star Frontiersman and Frontier Explorer fanzines (why one guy publishes two Star Frontiers fanzines I still don't quite get, but I digress), received a telephone call from Wizards of the Coast today. All of the remastered Star Frontiers materials on Starfrontiersman.com are being pulled, several issues of the Star Frontiersman fanzine are being pulled, and it's quite possible that WotC is about to put the kibosh on both fanzines. So... erm... get those books and fanzines while you still can, (if they're even still up).
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If they have any class they'll at least thank him for keeping interest alive and showing them there is an audience for their older games.

Maybe it's a new trend and they'll kill all those nonexistent Boot Hill sites and fanzines, too.
 
I'm just glad I got the Frontier Explorer issue #23 with the "official" Star Frontiers races conversions to FrontierSpace in both PDF and print while I still could. Worse comes to worst, I suppose he can switch Frontier Explorer from being a Star Frontiers and FrontierSpace fanzine to being a pure FrontierSpace fanzine.

Update: Everything is being pulled on or slightly after March 1st, so you have until then to get 'em if you want.
 
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Apparition said:
Hot off the presses: The man that's behind Starfrontiersman.com and the Star Frontiersman and Frontier Explorer fanzines (why one guy publishes two Star Frontiers fanzines I still don't quite get, but I digress), received a telephone call from Wizards of the Coast today. All of the remastered Star Frontiers materials on Starfrontiersman.com are being pulled, several issues of the Star Frontiersman fanzine are being pulled, and it's quite possible that WotC is about to put the kibosh on both fanzines. So... erm... get those books and fanzines while you still can, (if they're even still up).
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Sad news. I understand why on Wizards part but still sad. Just thankful we had what we had for the time we had. (If that makes sense:smile:)
 
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