Running Eternal Lies and having a blast

[Imperator]

Hey, everyone

This Saturday we're meeting again for a session (eigth session) of our Eternal Lies campaign. I am additionally using the amazing material from The Alexandrian Remix, that you can find here. We're currently finishing the First Act, set in Los Ángeles, after a short intro in New York and a brief investigation in Savannah, Georgia, the PCs have reached the main hub of the campaign, as here they're finding clues that point to a global conspiration. And things are about to become HARD.

Eternal Lies – The Alexandrian Remix

Eternal Lies is an amazing campaign written for Trail of Cthulhu by Will Hindmarch, Jeff Tidball, and Jeremy Keller.The basic conceit of the campaign is that a decade ago a band of occult investig

thealexandrian.net

Anyway, I'd like to see if anyone else has had experiences running or playing this magnificent campaign, and to discuss (generally speaking) what can be the most worthy successor of Masks of Nyarlathotep, which many consider to be the greatest RPG campaign ever.

 

[Fenris-77]

I haven't run it, but I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

 

[Teotwawki]

I've run it twice, but both times set in different eras (and a replacement location or two) than as written, and neither time using the ToC system. Each time, it had better sessions than others, but the conclusions were epic. Top Ten--maybe Top Five--of campaigns I've ever run. Masks will always have the honor of being my first epic campaign, but Eternal Lies benefits from MoN setting the bar so high. I kinda like EL better.

I don't know if it is in this forum or another (EnWorld? Purple Site?), but Lisa Padol has several write ups about it that are definitely worth finding.

 

[Imperator]

I haven't run it, but I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

If there's interest, I could use this thread to post short summaries (not full-blown APs, don't have the time for that) as to explain how the game is going. We're trying and getting slowly the hang of GUMSHOE, it takes a bit of different thinking from your typical RPG, CoC for example. Not better or worst, mind you, but different.

I've run it twice, but both times set in different eras (and a replacement location or two) than as written, and neither time using the ToC system. Each time, it had better sessions than others, but the conclusions were epic. Top Ten--maybe Top Five--of campaigns I've ever run. Masks will always have the honor of being my first epic campaign, but Eternal Lies benefits from MoN setting the bar so high. I kinda like EL better.

I don't know if it is in this forum or another (EnWorld? Purple Site?), but Lisa Padol has several write ups about it that are definitely worth finding.

It would be great if you could find those links, though it's too much to ask, I know. Which systems did you use?

I agree with you on EL probably being slightly better than MoN, though definitely MoN is one of the greatest ever. I've run MoN 3-4 times, always magnificent.

 

[Fenris-77]

If there's interest, I could use this thread to post short summaries (not full-blown APs, don't have the time for that) as to explain how the game is going. We're trying and getting slowly the hang of GUMSHOE, it takes a bit of different thinking from your typical RPG, CoC for example. Not better or worst, mind you, but different.

Gumshoe is certainly its own thing and does indeed take some getting used to. I own a ton of Gumshoe games and supplements but the only one I've actually used with any frequency is Swords of the Serpentine, which is perhaps a step removed from core Gumshoe in terms of mechanics. I'd be interested in some short updates of how your game goes for sure - examples of actual play are a valuable resource.

 

[Imperator]

What I've found is that GUMSHOE demands from the player a different (and additional) kind of proactivity from the usual you expect in any RPG. In any RPG you are supposed to be proactive and get involved in everything that happens, but in GUMSHOE you are specially motivated to look for and create if necessary, situations where you get to use your Investigation Skills, because that's automatic success. So at first, my players were a bit confused because the divide between having and not having a Skill is HUGE. In CoC, for example, you can always roll as you have at least a 01% in any Skill, so they don't care that much about the approach they take. Here you must approach every situation from the point of view of your Skills, and that shapes roleplaying. If you have Intimidation and don't have Reassurance, then you have to be basically this big bully to everyon you want to get info from, as you just cannot be reassuring in any way.

Of course this strangeness lessens as the game goes on, because players will tend to try and get at least 1 point in every Investigation skill (at least Interpersonal) because it pays so much.

 

[Fenris-77]

I think that players coming from a (relatively) low demand system environment, D&D being the prime example, can struggle when they first encounter games that are more demanding of their input. This is certainly true of PbtA games, and I suspect also of Gumshoe. Some players take to this new set of demands like ducks to water, but other players seems to bounce of the idea pretty hard. To each their own.

I'd agree that there's a base level of system familiarity (I'll stop short of the rather hackneyed word 'mastery') that produces far more competent Gumshoe characters out of char gen. I would agree that the difference between having and not having a skill in GS is much larger than the difference between having one or two ranks in a skill. My tendency with SotS characters is to cast a wide net of single rank skills with perhaps one or two areas of focus rather than trying to build a smaller set of complimentary skills at high levels. That second method, broadly speaking, characterizes what people usually refer to as optimization when it comes to D&D characters and that method produces far more competent 'feeling' PCs than the wide net method I mentioned first. I've found this second method to be far more often the 'optimal' case generally with RPGs and I think that might contribute to it being a rather hard habit to break when one is new to Gumshoe.

 

[Teotwawki]

It would be great if you could find those links, though it's too much to ask, I know. Which systems did you use?

Part (a): I'm looking! I'm looking!

They're in the Yoggie forum (forum does not show up in the Generic Search Engine® results). You do need an account to read them: two tangentially related, two massively loaded threads about the campaign.

Related 1: Masks of Nyarlathotep. ...I don't see why it's so good? [2014-16]
Related 2: How Did You End Masks? [2015]
Loaded 1: Eternal Lies SPOILERS GMs ONLY [2014-2023 / 18 pages]
Loaded 2: Eternal Lies Handouts - SPOILERS GMs only [2013-2022 / 21 pages]

Part (b): Short answer is Delta Green's Misery Engine; the Misery Engine without using Delta Green Agents nor secret gov't organization itself.

Slightly longer answer is the first time running it, I set the initial ritual that failed was part of the burgeoning counter-culture of SoCal in the mid 60s and the PC's campaign was then late 70s. The Mason Murders, Cold War Politics, and 70s terrorism were background complications. Second time was set in 1991/2 and 2010-2012; Malta was moved to (Kotor area) Montenegro so I could haughtily lay claim that I had personally been to all locations where the campaign was set. Both times we worked in (in)famous Bird Girl statue in Bonaventure Cemetery into the plot as a harbinger & dénouement touchstone; the statue was placed there in 1936, so it could be present with little difficulty in the campaign's original era.

The 60s-70s campaign, the PCs were a part of a Theron Marks Society-type group hired by the femme fatale (everyone knew each other and any replacement characters were already in the loop for the most part). The 1990s/2010s campaign we adapted the NPCs of Delta Green's SaucerWatch into player characters (again, leaving most everything from DG canon by the wayside), and had the daughter of a disgraced member be the patron. We'd used these characters for two other scenarios previous to EL, so the experiences there played into the campaign.

 

[Imperator]

I think that players coming from a (relatively) low demand system environment, D&D being the prime example, can struggle when they first encounter games that are more demanding of their input. This is certainly true of PbtA games, and I suspect also of Gumshoe. Some players take to this new set of demands like ducks to water, but other players seems to bounce of the idea pretty hard. To each their own.

I'd agree that there's a base level of system familiarity (I'll stop short of the rather hackneyed word 'mastery') that produces far more competent Gumshoe characters out of char gen. I would agree that the difference between having and not having a skill in GS is much larger than the difference between having one or two ranks in a skill. My tendency with SotS characters is to cast a wide net of single rank skills with perhaps one or two areas of focus rather than trying to build a smaller set of complimentary skills at high levels. That second method, broadly speaking, characterizes what people usually refer to as optimization when it comes to D&D characters and that method produces far more competent 'feeling' PCs than the wide net method I mentioned first. I've found this second method to be far more often the 'optimal' case generally with RPGs and I think that might contribute to it being a rather hard habit to break when one is new to Gumshoe.

I like the term 'mastery' myself. I read on the blog of Anthony Huso (bluebard.com) that every player should be a GM to their own PC: Be completely awatre of all the rules and skills pertaining the PC, so they can play effectively, not only in the mechanical sense, but in the portraying a person sense. A fighter PC should be aware of the differences between weapons and maneuvers, and if the players is not, the capacity to make decisions as the PC would is compromised.

Definitely, regarding Investigation Skills, GUMSHOE like generalists with lots of overlap in the group.

Part (a): I'm looking! I'm looking!

They're in the Yoggie forum (forum does not show up in the Generic Search Engine® results). You do need an account to read them: two tangentially related, two massively loaded threads about the campaign.

Related 1: Masks of Nyarlathotep. ...I don't see why it's so good? [2014-16]
Related 2: How Did You End Masks? [2015]
Loaded 1: Eternal Lies SPOILERS GMs ONLY [2014-2023 / 18 pages]
Loaded 2: Eternal Lies Handouts - SPOILERS GMs only [2013-2022 / 21 pages]

Part (b): Short answer is Delta Green's Misery Engine; the Misery Engine without using Delta Green Agents nor secret gov't organization itself.

Slightly longer answer is the first time running it, I set the initial ritual that failed was part of the burgeoning counter-culture of SoCal in the mid 60s and the PC's campaign was then late 70s. The Mason Murders, Cold War Politics, and 70s terrorism were background complications. Second time was set in 1991/2 and 2010-2012; Malta was moved to (Kotor area) Montenegro so I could haughtily lay claim that I had personally been to all locations where the campaign was set. Both times we worked in (in)famous Bird Girl statue in Bonaventure Cemetery into the plot as a harbinger & dénouement touchstone; the statue was placed there in 1936, so it could be present with little difficulty in the campaign's original era.

The 60s-70s campaign, the PCs were a part of a Theron Marks Society-type group hired by the femme fatale (everyone knew each other and any replacement characters were already in the loop for the most part). The 1990s/2010s campaign we adapted the NPCs of Delta Green's SaucerWatch into player characters (again, leaving most everything from DG canon by the wayside), and had the daughter of a disgraced member be the patron. We'd used these characters for two other scenarios previous to EL, so the experiences there played into the campaign.

Thank you for the effort of collecting the links, I'll check them right away.

Both setups look extremely interesting, wow.

 

[Teotwawki]

we're meeting again for a session (eigth session) of our Eternal Lies campaign

So this note is to say thank you in a sincere tone and thanks a lot in a sarcastic tone!

EL has genuinely become one of those campaigns that I feel compelled to run if I end up thinking about it again for more than a day. And since this thread (as well as disappointment with a new release of an old game that was to be our next campaign), I've been wondering how it could be done again, improving on past experiences and twisting it into something newish. Those requirements met, I've spent the past week or so putting together a custom googli map with sites (anachronistic to the era of campaigning, but still useful), as well as map images that vivisection images to make what I want from them. Also have an in-game method to deal with a player who has been a part of EL previously. We begin our session zero this weekend.

Map example attached: