Belle Sorciere
Legendary Pubber
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2017
- Messages
- 337
- Reaction score
- 286
John WickTo be fair, if there were two popular movies named after you, you'd probably have a big ego as well. :p
... What? :confused:
John Wick Chapter 2
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John WickTo be fair, if there were two popular movies named after you, you'd probably have a big ego as well. :p
... What? :confused:
Sure, but unfortunately some of the creators love to talk about themselves (hell sometimes more than their creations) When their egos get that big then we (fortunately or unfortunately[depending of personal preference])need to get some really big needles to deflate them.You know, thinking about the way this thread has turned into a John Wick thread and my rather harsh description of V:TR 2e's writing in another thread, I'm concerned about getting too personal here. I'd rather focus on critiquing the games themselves than the creators for too long. Of course it is inevitable that individual creators and types of creators will and must be considered when analyzing a game's outcome, but there's not need to wallow overlong in their perceived failings either.
Naturally I don't want to shut down the discussion, just proposing a perhaps lighter touch.
I like games with hard choices and hard realities, but I don't feel that Wick really delivers on those. His games seem too scripted to give a genuine hard choice. The overall gist of advice I have seen from him is to spend most of the campaign making sure everything goes wrong and then to engineer it so that there is an "earned" reversal at the end where things finally go right. It doesn't feel to me like the events really lead from the players' choices as all.That's a perfectly valid point of view, don't get me wrong; and I think tables should generally play to the limits of the most reserved / vulnerable / shyest person there; if one player doesn't want that shit, don't do it. But personally, I love some hard choices and harsh realities every so often. I don't expect everything to turn out OK all of the time.
I'm not sure I'd have liked to have played in all of Wick's games, but they do sound like fun.
I'm not convinced that rules are the way to do stories. But then, I'm the heretic that thinks RPGs are a terrible medium to use for storytelling.Or from rules enforcing such story arcs.
That's what I meant to say. I fixed it in my original post.I'm not convinced that rules are the way to do stories. But then, I'm the heretic that thinks RPGs are a terrible medium to use for storytelling.
Why is it a terrible medium for storytelling?I'm not convinced that rules are the way to do stories. But then, I'm the heretic that thinks RPGs are a terrible medium to use for storytelling.
So we start off with some definitions. Telling a story heavily implies describing events after the fact. Which is very much not what you're doing in an RPG.Why is it a terrible medium for storytelling?
To which I offer this as a different look at things. With particular emphasis onThis might help a bit.
http://www.storynet.org/resources/whatisstorytelling.html
I play role-playing games in order to engage in a sophisticated daydream about myself in the role of various dream-personae: knights, astronauts, superheroes.
Nowadays; we are more likely to be told that a game:
Focuses on the journey of the hero the sacred quest or monomyth which represents in mythic language the seeking of cultures after their own identity.
That it is:
A powerful means of exploring our dreams.
or else that it is:
A story telling game, but it is also a role-playing game... You not only tell stories, but actually act through them by assuming the roles of the central character. It's a lot like theatre, but you make up the lines
How many questions are being begged here? In what particular sense is role-playing like theatre? When did "role-playing" becoming subsidiary to "story telling"?
I think the real question is, why you think roleplaying is antithetical to storytelling?And the real question,.
Why do you think roleplaying requires storytelling?I think the real question is, why you think roleplaying is antithetical to storytelling?
This "I play role-playing games in order to engage in a sophisticated daydream about myself in the role of various dream-personae: knights, astronauts, superheroes." is in no way ever stopped when "storytelling" is around.
Strange isn't it, both of these are needed for storytelling.
- Focus means simply to role-play: to get caught up in the world, to concentrate on the character, not to parody the serious bits or talk about Babylon 5 every time a lull develops.
- Acceptance is simpler and harder. It means that players should approach the game with an uncritical spirit: they should respect the basic reality of the other PCs and of the world. They should accept and respect what the referee is doing, and always be on his side.
Mind showing me where I said it does.Why do you think roleplaying requires storytelling?
This is becoming a pointless conversation. I say roleplaying is a bad medium for telling stories because it's more about the now and being in the moment than they it is about a developing narrative. And because there are too many random factors involved for any sort of coherence (in the dictionary rather than Forge definition of the word) to emerge. Though you can tell a story about the event after the fact, if you choose. You then post to a page that gives such a broad definition of stories as to be utterly useless saying it might be of some help. Indicating that you have a different viewpoint.Mind showing me where I said it does.
I'll wait.
Can we just accept some people like narrative mechanics and others don't. These kinds of arguments are forum cancer.
Can we just accept some people like narrative mechanics and others don't. These kinds of arguments are forum cancer.
Can we just accept some people like narrative mechanics and others don't.
I am fine with people not liking games. I am fine with people expounding on why they don't like a game. I'm always happy to go into a detail about why I found a game unsatisfying. That is part of the fun of a forum.I think the history of the gaming hobby reveals the answer to be "No. No, we can't".
I have an extant theory for why these kinds of arguments are so common in hobby gaming specifically, but it would create more flamewars than it resolves.
Well this forum was supposedly made to allow these types of discussions, but now seeing what the admin posted, guess he changed his mind.I think the history of the gaming hobby reveals the answer to be "No. No, we can't".
I have an extant theory for why these kinds of arguments are so common in hobby gaming specifically, but it would create more flamewars than it resolves.
I don't see that, Endless Flight was just offering his opinion. And to be honest there was little debate beyond repeated yes it is, no it isn't. At that point what's left to say.Well this forum was supposedly made to allow these types of discussions, but now seeing what the admin posted, guess he changed his mind.
Forget anchovies, these days it's all about the pineapple.It just becomes pointless if I try to convince someone that a game they like is bad. It's like arguing about whether anchovies should be on pizza. I firmly believe they should be, but I am never going to convince my brother-in-law of that.
That can be a heated issue, but we managed to settle it in New Jersey by bringing back the death penalty purely for people that order pineapple on a pizza. Pizza is serious business here.Forget anchovies, these days it's all about the pineapple.
Man do I miss New Jersey pizza. And pork roll egg and cheese on an everything bagel. With salt, pepper and ketchup.That can be a heated issue, but we managed to settle it in New Jersey by bringing back the death penalty purely for people that order pineapple on a pizza. Pizza is serious business here.
Man do I miss New Jersey pizza. And pork roll egg and cheese on an everything bagel. With salt, pepper and ketchup.
I miss pizza, period.
Being a vegetarian for 14 years was no problem, but going vegan and giving up cheese in the last 3 has been a serious sacrifice. Thankfully cheese alternatives keep getting better, but they cost a mandible and an antenna. Sadder still, they won't be getting cheaper until they start to stabilize and coalesce into products of scale, which could take a while.
At least I still have my last remaining vice, soda.
That can be a heated issue, but we managed to settle it in New Jersey by bringing back the death penalty purely for people that order pineapple on a pizza. Pizza is serious business here.
Anchovy pizza is literally the greatest thing that has ever existed. Ever.
Fools. Pork and pineapple are a match made in Heaven.
Speaking of relish, if you dig anchovies, you should try this.
Yeah, cheese is hard... I'm not really able to just cut down on it, I have to go cold turkey.One of the reasons I haven't gone vegan is because I know my limitations: I'll never be able to give up cheese.
I kicked caffeine, though. Had a splitting migraine for about a year, but I did it.
Yeah, cheese is hard... I'm not really able to just cut down on it, I have to go cold turkey.
Coffee though... I've given it up before but really missed that bitter taste that nothing else will match. Plus, I didn't really have any good reason for stopping.
I detoxed once...you'd think I'd been doing crack, shakes vomiting. I was awful, after that I admitted I had a problem and swore to overlord caffeine I would never try to leave again.NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Ahem. Sorry.
I'd like to take this opportunity to write that if anyone's thinking about kicking caffeine, don't. Seriously. Unless you're crystal clear on why you're doing it, just enjoy the tea and coffee. They're delicious.
It took me a year for it to work it's way out of my system. Ever been around a lifelong smoker that's going cold turkey? That was me. I don't know how anyone managed to stand being around me. I was a crabby, withdrawing, donkey bitch.
I've never looked at L5R or 7th Sea.